Limelight Forums

(Oct 24, 2016, 11:24 PM)MikeH_ Wrote: [ -> ] Just as the jailbreak was in full swing, BlackDog interrupted the raid and froze Kpred, Brennan, and MKE in the air, effectively ending the raid. BlackDog then began to lecture the experienced group of Anarchists and quoted several rules which do not exist. One of which was the fact that Anarchists have to change their job rules so that they can be affiliated with each other. This is direct contradiction to the group’s description in which it says ‘A member of an underground GROUP of criminals”. It is clear that these criminals are grouped together and DO NOT need to further clarify this.

(This has been enforced as such for some time, you are an anarchist, a person who dislikes authority, a person who does PETTY crime, if you wish to work with another "Anarchist" you can do so, but list your affiliation as such, such as forming into a group, an example I often give out as a basic template "Jones Gang: Member" Affiliation is shown, the RP type is shown depending on what they wish, and your status within it is shown.

Without this your just "Anarchist" helping "Anarchist" because "Anarchist", you are not a gang, you are not a group, you are a single person who identifies as an Anarchist, a petty criminal who dislikes authority.

This kind of action is exactly the same as "Criminal" helping "Criminal" because "Criminal".
Job titles must be specific in what you are RPing as and not having it at the time of the action invalidates the action in question.

This falls under:
9.1: Custom job titles must accurately state what character you intend to roleplay. (See Below)
9.4: Do not set your job title as "Classified" or similar  (See Below)
9.6: You must roleplay your job accurately (See Below)

(An Anarchist slot is by default a petty criminal and with its leader slot removed, an individual with no default team connections other than the fact they wear similar clothing and have similar ideals to the others (9.6), thus to work together as a group, affiliation must be listed to show this, (9.1) and thus the title must also fall in line with 9.4 and not be vague to confirm your RP type))



During the whole situation where BlackDog was questioned as to what rule was broken, or what we were being punished for he failed to produce a concrete reason and kept reiterating that we had no affiliation to each other. We stated during the whole conversation that the gamemode and the rules clearly state that the anarchists are a team.

(Note: No punishment was handed out, the situation was invalidated due to a lack of listed affiliation, and as such those involved we're respawned without loss of property)

BlackDog had a conflicting opinion to this stating that they are a group of individuals. Firstly, I will restate that the description of the job states ‘A member of an underground GROUP of criminals” we told BlackDog this but he continued to ignore it stating his own opinion. Secondly, the Anarchist group has a team radio, obviously showing the group are affiliated hence otherwise why would they all have communication with each other.

(I was not aware that the radio was still there, its no doubt a leftover from when they we're changed from rebels, when rebels we're changed to anarchists, all things linking them together as a group we're supposed to be removed, Anarchist Leader was once a thing until them all being one group made no sense, so it was removed and thus they became job class of individuals acting independently from eachother by default)



Thirdly, the Anarchist/Mafia rules state “15.1 Do not kill or steal from your team members” this a rule which applies to the anarchists, stating quite clearly they are a team and thus affiliated. Also the rules also state Different teams are created for a reason, so do not ally with other teams. For example, Anarchists  do not ally with Corleones. This states that the Anarchist is a predefined team. Contradictory to BlackDogs opinion. In essence I am stating that the gamemode and rules define that the Anarchists are a team, in this situation BlackDog has acted against what the gamemode and rules state and decided to punish off his own opinion.

(Again, most likley an unintended leftover from the original changes when they WE'RE a unified team with a designated leader by default, this is no longer the case"

After this had been explained to BlackDog, he said that this is not valid and that the raid would be cancelled. He then slayed the remaining Anarchists and posted the link to the Staff Report section.
(The raid was invalidated and all anarchists we're respawned yes, when you began to bring it into the OOC chat i forwarded a link to this posting area and said to keep the discussion from flowing into the ooc

We feel as though BlackDog has failed in his duty as an Administrator because of the fact he has created his own interpretation of the rules and enforced them without any valid reasoning to do so. Nowhere in the rules does it state that we need to clarify as Anarchists that we are a part of a ‘team’. We also feel as though BlackDog has disturbed our roleplay as he decided to take it upon himself to interrupt the raid and then abuse his use of the !slay command, resulting in the raid essentially being ‘written off’ because he felt as though it was an invalid reason. We would also like to state that no other person had a problem with us not being affiliated BlackDog took it upon himself to stop our RP.
 
(A point of order, part of my job is to interpret the rules in how they apply to all situations beyond what is written, such is in our rules within the line (It's almost impossible to cover every single detail with rules).

Thus staff need to be able to define the undefined within the ruleset we have been provided and based on the interpretation, action is taken.

In a majority of cases an interpretation is unneeded, others become far more complex than anything that could ever be written down in a shorthand form, and thus staff look to which rules where such an action could fall under. In this case, 9.1, 9.4, 9.6, combined with the changes made to the Anarchist job in itself, the swap from Rebels, To a unified anarchist front, to the removal of its leadership and its change into a group of individuals, compiled by the enforcement of Listed Group Affiliation for groups working together.

No punishment was handed out during this situation and the situation itself was invalidated based on the above

(Oct 25, 2016, 02:55 PM)MikeH_ Wrote: [ -> ]Firstly, a punishment was quite clearly handed out as we were all slayed.
(You we're not punished, since no one received an actual punishment, no BL, no Ban, a respawn to remove those people from the area)

Secondly, after the removal of the leader role a question was asked in the help and support section as to which this very situation was clearly answered that anarchists are a team See here.
(That does not appear to be an official ruling on the subject and one post in regards to the topic)

Thirdly, "Custom job titles must accurately state what character you intend to roleplay." The rule quite clearly states CUSTOM job titles, considering that  the anarchist job isn't custom this rule doesn't come into effect.
(I listed it as factor into my reasoning behind the action I took as the Listed Group Affiliation can fall into its catagory)

Finally, stating that its just "its no doubt a leftover from when they we're changed from rebels", isn't a fair statement after the removal of the leader role all anarchists were given ECM Jammers showing that the class had been changed to reflect the removal of the leader. I fail to see how you can just pass this situation off saying that in your opinion all of this should have been removed where not only in the gamemode and rules, but also when official judgements have been passed on the forums you still go against this.

(Thus far you have shown one thread, with 1 post saying they think thats how it might be near the end of it, this is not an official ruleing nor a post that every member of staff has seen, and thus they do not take it into accont,

I know i hadnt seen it up until now, I based my actions off what I had seen prior in threads within the Office, and what I have been told by other members of staff during discussions, ontop of the rules listed above and how they have been enforced.

If you feel the role of the anarchist needs a 100% fixed definition so that Listed Group Affiliation isnt needed and leftovers from the rebel job finaly removed, post a suggestion so that it can be discussed and ruled on)

(Oct 25, 2016, 07:06 PM)SirWulf Wrote: [ -> ]Looking at this, overall I don't feel that this would fall under abuse. After all if you look at the thread for reporting abuse, using !slay is mentioned is a 'do not report' unless it was random. In this case it was not.

(Oct 25, 2016, 07:29 PM)MikeH_ Wrote: [ -> ]

(Oct 25, 2016, 07:06 PM)SirWulf Wrote: [ -> ]Looking at this, overall I don't feel that this would fall under abuse. After all if you look at the thread for reporting abuse, using !slay is mentioned is a 'do not report' unless it was random. In this case it was not.

Yes, and as explained above this was a random use of the !slay command. He had no reason to intervene abruptly ending the raid by freezing us all and then continuing to slay us with no reason which thus making it a random slay on multiple players.

(Oct 25, 2016, 07:41 PM)SirWulf Wrote: [ -> ]

(Oct 25, 2016, 07:29 PM)MikeH_ Wrote: [ -> ]

(Oct 25, 2016, 07:06 PM)SirWulf Wrote: [ -> ]Looking at this, overall I don't feel that this would fall under abuse. After all if you look at the thread for reporting abuse, using !slay is mentioned is a 'do not report' unless it was random. In this case it was not.

Yes, and as explained above this was a random use of the !slay command. He had no reason to intervene abruptly ending the raid by freezing us all and then continuing to slay us with no reason which thus making it a random slay on multiple players.

He did give a reason. You just didn't like it.  Random would be flying up and slaying everyone without any notice.