Limelight Forums

Your Name: Tails

Ban ID: 3593

Banned by: [L2[ Blackdog

Server: Tekkit

Ban Reason: "Minging other players, threatening to dos" - "Minging other players, threatening to dox" after Enzyme corrected it

Why should you be unbanned?:  
After looking at the evidence that was sent to the staff team to aid my ban (from 

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https://imgur.com/a/7ci9S), I am almost certain that my actions are not worthy of a permanent ban, if any. What's more is that the accusing parties failed to provide ALL of the screenshots, instead opting to only provide screenshots which incriminate me, leaving out them insulting, my reasoning and other images which could possibly make the situation much clearer.

There are a couple of screenshots which I can see why they look bad, (3, 4& 9) where I had accidentally broken into their house through the ocean, causing water to leak in (and may have destroyed some crops, unsure about that) but I let them know about it, specifically stating it was an accident as seen in the screenshots and fixed it the best I could and apologized. A point raised was the fact the hole is 9x9, this is because of the Red Morningstar item, which acts like an improved red matter hammer (mining square holes with 1 click, using EMC)

Screenshot 9 shows a carpenters door, and me saying I had broken it. If anyone has ever used a red morningstar, you would know how quickly it can mine stone (carpenters blocks take on the properties of the block they are disguised as, in this case, stone). I replaced the door, but due to a bug with carpenters mod sometimes they will not turn into the selected block, instead opening/closing (normally fixed by breaking/placing the door again, I tried this a couple of times to no avail) so I placed the door down, and left the 2 stone blocks that wouldn't place in front of it to avoid doing further damage.

The "dos" threat was clearly sarcastic, and yes it was in poor taste and something I should not have said. The fact that I specifically didn't even say DoS/DDoS, instead opting for the dox meme, something which I'm sure can be agreed is never used in a serious conversation.

Another point I wish to address, is the fact that the evidence was used in a such a way that it makes the accusing party seem completely innocent, something which they are certainly not. Just from the top of my head, I can recall them calling me a "Pussy", calling me a "Thing" and claiming that my "life has no value" and possibly more. This in itself, is (I'm sure) bannable. If tampering with evidence is bannable, why isn't leaving out crucial points in a ban request?

Witnesses: 
MrMeme | 

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https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198088780435/ (Online at time of incident)
Bezekira Windfury | 

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https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198047671137/ (was speaking through server console nearer the end of the incident)
ACuddlyMethBear | Unknown (Accusing Party)(Minecraft name, may not be accurate to Steam)
ACuddlyMethHead | Unknown (Accusing Party)[font=open_sansregular, Arial, sans-serif](Minecraft name, may not be accurate to Steam)[/font]
TheCaptain | Unknown (Accusing Party)[font=open_sansregular, Arial, sans-serif](Minecraft name, may not be accurate to Steam)[/font]
[font=open_sansregular, Arial, sans-serif]tmdirtbike | Unknown (Online at time of incident)[/font]

Evidence: N/A

Feel free to ask any questions, all of which I can happily answer.

I'll forward this up the chain to enzyme who said to issue a perm and to Wesley who sent us the information

Though you say some very odd things for someone who did nothing wrong.

" This is what you get for TPing strangers"

"Wana see something cool"
They say no and you say " ill remove the ocean elsewhere "and then you have an "accident" and the entire roof explodes away.

The Dos threat is generaly under a zero tolerence policy from what i remember

(Jul 18, 2016, 03:28 AM)BlackDog Wrote: [ -> ]I'll forward this up the chain to enzyme who said to issue a perm and to Wesley who sent us the information

Though you say some very odd things for someone who did nothing wrong.

" This is what you get for TPing strangers"

"Wana see something cool"
They say no and you say " ill remove the ocean elsewhere "and then you have an "accident" and the entire roof explodes away.

The Dos threat is generaly under a zero tolerence policy from what i remember

I'll take these quotes one at a time,

"This is what you get for TPing strangers" is literally me just PvPing them after tping, I don't see any wrong here. Might I add they were also trying to kill me aswell (obviously not succeeding, as I have much better gear)

"Wanna see something cool"
I was going to demonstrate a mechanic of red/dark matter tools, where you can remove all blocks of gravel connected to eachother with 1 click, and as most of the ocean floor was covered in gravel I thought he'd like to see it.

Minging through his roof, as I've explained multiple times now, was COMPLETELY accidental and something which I apologized for and fixed as best I could. 

I understand that DoS threats are of no tolerance, and I support that. The fact is that I didn't threaten to DoS anyone, I said "i will doxx u", a somewhat well-known meme and was clearly of no threat. (https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/doxing)

Thanks for the quick reply, again I'm happy to answer any questions.

And instead of DoSing the player you want to steal all his personal information?

Hello,

As I (CuddlyMethBear, not to be mistaken with CuddlyMethHead) have not been there for all of the problems arising that day I only have the full image gallery, made by TheCaptain, that can be found below:

https://imgur.com/a/nxN52

As seen in this image gallery, both parties engaged into written/non-verbal insulting communication, if not aggressive behavior. So, I myself, would drop that charge. Obviously it is no talk for any player in this community, as we're all here to have fun and hang out with eachother instead of having one another threat with DoSing them.
Whether or not you know the server owner of Tekkit, you shouldn't've engaged in the behavior that you have engaged in, in my opinion. I am assuming you have been a member here for a while now, so you should know how the rules are put together. Even I know this, and I haven't been here for that long yet.

Though, it bothers me that two of my friends have to Skype message me late at night, when I want to try and relax after having weeks of hard work at college, and getting my exams done; saying "You should hop on right now, as you won't believe your eyes as to what just happened''.  And therefor sadly enough have them judge the community for your actions. After I came online and saw what they had to repair and what they have lost, I made sure they knew this isn't something someone that belongs in this community would do.



CuddlyMethHead (Bo) gives the following statement (he doesn't have a forum account, so if you want to have any proof/back-up on this, you can sometimes spot him at the TeamSpeak under the Tekkit channel. Or, per request, I could Skype him to get online):
After I allowed him to TP, as he wanted to check out our base, I asked him multiple times to leave after he started to ruin the place. He didn't follow this, and so I got aggrevated and dragged myself into a written argument with him. Other than that, I'd still like to see that action will be taken against the griefing, minging, trolling around and eventually the DoS theat that took place.

Note: I talked to both of them on TeamSpeak, and like I said, I wasn't there for everything: They do not recall calling your life not valuable. They do recall saying that if you will continue this, you will not get far in life.
Again, things were said by both parties, so I honestly think none of you should be punished for that.

Bottom line:
The reasons why I -support are these:
- Yes, both parties used written/non-verbal insulting communication, if not aggressive behavior towards each other.  And no I don't think either of you two/three should be dealt with for that.

- No, the breaking of the roof was NOT an accident, as you said you'd remove the ocean elsewhere, and suddenly it was inside our base.

- No, the minging wasn't done unintentionally as the TPing took place because you wanted to ''check out the base''. Instead, you look around, and start messing everything up.

- I tried getting you online at TeamSpeak to reason things out (as none of the parties was using a correct approach, and I figured talking voice-to-voice might've been a bit more of a personal approach to sort things out), and you denied it multiple times even after I gave you the reason for it.

- You even tried to instigate not only CuddlyMethHead and TheCaptain, but also me to be involved in a non-verbal argument with you. After BlackDog figured out the group you are in, I wasn't surprised as to why you did that. It also makes me think you did not learn your lesson from this, and should not yet (or ever) get rid of your punishment so easily.

- No, I don't think you should receive a lower sentence than at least a ban for the DoS threat. Whether it was a ''joke'' from a meme (as I figured the group you are in, likes to troll around), or not. DoS/''Dox'' threats should be zero-tolerance, if they aren't already.


If any questions arise of my statement and/or Bo's statement, feel free to contact me per PM, Steam (for those who have me) or at the TeamSpeak.

Thank you,

Kind regards,
Wesley (Wesley Lawrence/CuddlyMethBear).

I don't believe that your ban will remain permanent, but it's very important that you understand that we do not take Dox-threats lightly. As I told to you on Steam, you could have handled the situation a lot better and ultimately it was you who crossed the line with the Dox-threat. You can call it a meme, but others can interpret it as a serious threat and that causes for a hostile environment that we do not wish for our players to experience here on Limelight.

You seem to have gotten a few warnings on the forum already when it comes to insulting and crossing the line on the forum, and I'll need to remind you that insulting and threats are not taken lightly and if this continues to happen then you will be issued a suspension. 

Back to the main topic of this thread, the Dox threat was unacceptable and in poor taste, and some of the other things that you say here (about the griefing) doesn't really add up with what you said in-game and what other people are explaining. I'm not too worried about a bit of rivalry on our MC server as long as it doesn't cross the line and it's ultimately the threat that I view as the big issue here.

(Jul 18, 2016, 06:17 PM)Enzyme Wrote: [ -> ]I don't believe that your ban will remain permanent, but it's very important that you understand that we do not take Dox-threats lightly. As I told to you on Steam, you could have handled the situation a lot better and ultimately it was you who crossed the line with the Dox-threat. You can call it a meme, but others can interpret it as a serious threat and that causes for a hostile environment that we do not wish for our players to experience here on Limelight.

You seem to have gotten a few warnings on the forum already when it comes to insulting and crossing the line on the forum, and I'll need to remind you that insulting and threats are not taken lightly and if this continues to happen then you will be issued a suspension. 

Back to the main topic of this thread, the Dox threat was unacceptable and in poor taste, and some of the other things that you say here (about the griefing) doesn't really add up with what you said in-game and what other people are explaining. I'm not too worried about a bit of rivalry on our MC server as long as it doesn't cross the line and it's ultimately the threat that I view as the big issue here.

Sorry for the late reply, I, as I'm sure we all are, am quite busy so I hope we can have this matter resolved as quickly and as efficiently as possible.

Enzyme:
Personally, I don't think the ban shouldn't have been permanent in the first place, as the simple fact is I didn't threaten to DoS anyone (I can see how it might've been mistaken as that, however)

Do I deserve to go unpunished? Probably not, depending on how it's handled. I am mature enough to admit I crossed the line, but as you said, the "threat" is the big issue here, considering any physical damage done on the server is as I stated, purely accidentally and something I apologized for and fixed.

You mention that I have several warnings already, however I don't feel they are necessary to add anything to this discussion. Besides 1 warning ("Insults issued by Pinky") was a misunderstanding between me and another player on the forums, something that through private messages, we managed to resolve with ease. Something I hope can be done with this situation also.

MethBear/Wesley:
The points you make about your reasoning behind a -support are purely yours and probably the rest of the accusing parties opinions, you seem to have this idea in your head that all my actions were completely voluntary and that any "griefing" was done on purpose - something which I can assure you is not the case, as stated in previous comments.

You tried getting me in teamspeak so we could maturely discuss, I am all open for a mature discussion, hence the reason I'm here however you provided only extremely vague reasons behind why you wanted me there, and no sensible reason as to why we couldn't talk on the server which I requested multiple times.

You say that I am in some sort of "group", and I have honestly no idea what you mean by this. If you could please elaborate on that point, I'll happily explain to the best of my ability.

Kind Regards,
Tails

You threatened to steal a player's personal info. In my opinion, that's worse than being DoSed. Meme or not, it's a serious matter.

(Jul 18, 2016, 08:51 PM)Soviethooves Wrote: [ -> ]You threatened to steal a player's personal info. In my opinion, that's worse than being DoSed. Meme or not, it's a serious matter.

There is a difference between clearly sarcastic jokes, and a serious matter. In this case it's the former,

(Jul 18, 2016, 08:51 PM)Soviethooves Wrote: [ -> ]You threatened to steal a player's personal info. In my opinion, that's worse than being DoSed. Meme or not, it's a serious matter.

I second your statement, Soviet. My biggest problems with this incident is mainly the threat about being able to get someone Doxxed and the griefing. A threat/joke that involves retrieving and releasing personal details, and an action that ruined in-game experience on purpose.

Tails, the points I have brought up after my '-support' aren't only mine. Your actions were not involuntary as you requested to be teleported (to quote: ''check out the base'') all by yourself, and to click your right mouse button to ''remove the ocean elsewhere'' does not seem like such an involuntary action either.
Heck, you even said yourself ''No pranks just abuse'' in the first picture on the gallery. I am pretty sure you were very aware of what you were doing.

Something else I noticed about your explanation:
You say you wanted to show the mechanics of dark- and/or red matter items?
You knew we had such pickaxes, shovels and even hammers. So why would you so eagerly want to show such to players that already have those items? It seems to me you just wanted to show off what destruction you could do with your items; and you succeeded. You flooded a part of our base and destroyed various other items.

Not to raffle this off; but unless the staff has any questions about my explanation, or wants any further explanation, I will hereby rest my replies until further notice. I will not start a back-and-forth argument in the forums with you, Tails.

There is no argument, just me explaining my side of the story.

Again, you're making assumptions because you're apparently so thin-skinned that you can't accept I made a mistake, and get on with life. I had no idea you had dark/red matter items, and even if you did it's not a well known mechanic.

As I've stated quite a few times now, I apologized and fixed the hole caused by the Morningstar, I don't see how any of the "griefing" (which there is none of) should be mentioned any further, as it has no place here. This discussion should be more based on why I have a ban for DoS Threats, which did not happen.

The fact that my purely sarcastic, in no way intended to harass, insult or intimidate statement: "I know the server owner and I will doxx u" has been taken to the point where you either honestly believe I would do that, or you're salty because I killed you (my favorable explanation) is almost ridiculous. I can understand why there was a mixup between DoS and doxx "threats" because of their similarity, and I feel like there is no point saying anything else. I've said everything that needs to be said, It was in no way intended to cause any means of harm, as I'm sure it did not, the "griefing" just didn't happen, and what things I had ACCIDENTALLY destroyed, again I apologized for and fixed as best I could. Even after I killed the other two ingame, I didn't take any of their stuff, either their inventory items or from their house, I hadn't destroyed any valuable blocks such as chests, and in general what VERY little damage their was could've been fixed withing seconds if not minutes.

So really, I still don't understand why my ban has not been reduced/removed already. We've already agreed that I did NOT threaten to DoS, something I'm fully aware is normally if not always a perma-ban even the mention of it. I've stated numerous times that the minging/griefing didn't happen, and as far as I'm aware there is no rule about joking about doxxing (or DDoSing for that matter, correct me if I'm wrong) as it's something I have done numerous times in the past.

You made a dox-threat and that's an issue, and as I've already mentioned; we take threats like that one quite seriously. It's quite self-explanatory that dox-threats are unacceptable and I wouldn't point you out as the victim in this case here, Tails.

Note: Ban has been edited to say "dox" instead of "dos".

I'll be away for a week so I'll let the other administrators make an evaluation on this case with the evidence and statements provided.

My opinion here is that you did indeed threaten someone with a dox-attack, and that it's unacceptable. I wouldn't exactly call you innocent in this case and this is why your ban hasn't been reduced or removed yet. I feel that this is a valid ban and that it will stay on your record. I will however leave the length of the ban to the other administrators reviewing this case.

Thank you for your patience.

(Jul 19, 2016, 11:50 PM)Enzyme Wrote: [ -> ]You made a dox-threat and that's an issue, and as I've already mentioned; we take threats like that one quite seriously. It's quite self-explanatory that dox-threats are unacceptable and I wouldn't point you out as the victim in this case here, Tails.

Note: Ban has been edited to say "dox" instead of "dos".

I'll be away for a week so I'll let the other administrators make an evaluation on this case with the evidence and statements provided.

My opinion here is that you did indeed threaten someone with a dox-attack, and that it's unacceptable. I wouldn't exactly call you innocent in this case and this is why your ban hasn't been reduced or removed yet. I feel that this is a valid ban and that it will stay on your record. I will however leave the length of the ban to the other administrators reviewing this case.

Thank you for your patience.

Thanks for the reply, and also thanks for changing the ban reason to actually reflect what happened.

I feel like the context and meaning of "dox" has still been overlooked, as I certainly wouldn't consider it an attack:

"the practice of investigating and revealing a target subject’s personally identifiable information" - 

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https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/doxing

I feel it is wrongful to assume that malicious intent is automatically assumed, as no such thing is listed in it's definition (whereas something such as DDoS is always used for malicious purposes). Again I don't feel comfortable with people assuming that just because I said it, it automatically becomes a threat, which is not the case and that should've been obvious from the start because of the level of sarcasm used in the sentence.

"I can have you d0xxed" - Tails (from evidence screenshots)

I don't know how I could've made it obvious that I was taking the piss, besides mentioning it in previous and comments after. I don't see a rule which prohibits the use of comments regarding dox/doxxing or similar behaviour, and I can't see any rule indirectly covering it either. Generally, I would imagine this sort of thing wouldn't be covered as besides the comment made, it doesn't really involve the community and/or staff (unless they are also directly involved)

It feels like we're getting nowhere with this, and going in circles. What else needs to be done? I've explained myself and my reasoning behind it and I don't see that I should say anything more.

Kind Regards,
Tails

(Jul 20, 2016, 12:22 AM)Tails Wrote: [ -> ]

(Jul 19, 2016, 11:50 PM)Enzyme Wrote: [ -> ]You made a dox-threat and that's an issue, and as I've already mentioned; we take threats like that one quite seriously. It's quite self-explanatory that dox-threats are unacceptable and I wouldn't point you out as the victim in this case here, Tails.

Note: Ban has been edited to say "dox" instead of "dos".

I'll be away for a week so I'll let the other administrators make an evaluation on this case with the evidence and statements provided.

My opinion here is that you did indeed threaten someone with a dox-attack, and that it's unacceptable. I wouldn't exactly call you innocent in this case and this is why your ban hasn't been reduced or removed yet. I feel that this is a valid ban and that it will stay on your record. I will however leave the length of the ban to the other administrators reviewing this case.

Thank you for your patience.

Thanks for the reply, and also thanks for changing the ban reason to actually reflect what happened.

I feel like the context and meaning of "dox" has still been overlooked, as I certainly wouldn't consider it an attack:

"the practice of investigating and revealing a target subject’s personally identifiable information" - 

Limelight - Link watcher

You're about to enter the following site: https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/doxing Please note: You should only visit trusted sites. We are not responsible for any loss of your privacy.

https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/doxing

I feel it is wrongful to assume that malicious intent is automatically assumed, as no such thing is listed in it's definition (whereas something such as DDoS is always used for malicious purposes). Again I don't feel comfortable with people assuming that just because I said it, it automatically becomes a threat, which is not the case and that should've been obvious from the start because of the level of sarcasm used in the sentence.

"I can have you d0xxed" - Tails (from evidence screenshots)

I don't know how I could've made it obvious that I was taking the piss, besides mentioning it in previous and comments after. I don't see a rule which prohibits the use of comments regarding dox/doxxing or similar behaviour, and I can't see any rule indirectly covering it either. Generally, I would imagine this sort of thing wouldn't be covered as besides the comment made, it doesn't really involve the community and/or staff (unless they are also directly involved)

It feels like we're getting nowhere with this, and going in circles. What else needs to be done? I've explained myself and my reasoning behind it and I don't see that I should say anything more.

Kind Regards,
Tails

I said I was going to refrain from posting any more replies until staff would request so, ...but I just couldn't help myself notice and reply on something you said about the intent when doxxing someone (or getting someone doxxed). The opinion that threatning to have someone Doxxed isn't with malicious intent:

(Tails): "I feel it is wrongful to assume that malicious intent is automatically assumed, as no such thing is listed in it's definition".

But instead, on the website you yourself posted, the description goes:

(KnowYourMeme): "Doxing, sometimes spelled as Doxxing, refers to the practice of investigating and revealing a target subject’s personally identifiable information, such as home address, workplace information and credit card numbers, without consent."

I hope you do understand that 'investigating and revealing someone's personally identifiable information, such as home address, workplace information and credit card numbers, without consent.' is as malicious as it gets.

It actually even goes in violation of the Computer Crime Act and laws in various countries, including your own.

My opinion remains a -support just because of the fact that you're still trying to justify your actions by basically defending a criminal action. Whether it was meant in a certain level of sarcasm, or not.


I just wanted to clear that up. Nothing from my side anymore until further notice.